Author Topic: Guns and attachments  (Read 4754 times)

kalbuth

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Guns and attachments
« on: November 27, 2012, 03:14:20 pm »
A little post on guns, and how attachments work on them :

1) Guns, recoil, CoF/spread, all that jazz

basically, 2 main components on gun handling:
* recoil, the vertical kickback you see after each shot. Rather predictable, you counter it with moving the mouse down
* Spread, or Cone of Fire (CoF). It's an horizontal, random deviation of your aim or your bullet. Actually, there is 2 states in ADS (Aiming Down Sight, as opposed to Hip Firing) of CoF : 1 where you see your Sight randomly drift left and right slightly, at each shot. It appears rather fast. Another where you see your bullets actually not hitting right under your sight, but they go even more left or right. this appears usually after a longer sustained fire period.

2 ways to aim : Hip Fire or ADS.
On Hip Fire, your reticle will sligthly go up (slight recoil) and wildly grow (wild CoF going bigger and bigger)
On ADS, your Sight will get up more, but far less CoF.

Control methods :
you control recoil with your mouse (you move it down while firing, perhaps sometimes also a bit to the left cause some NC weapon have a up-right recoil pattern, namely Gauss and GR-22)
you control CoF with burst fire. CoF grows with sustain fire, you need to stop sustain fire to see the CoF shrink. Depending on weapon and target distance, you'll need to let go the LMB at 7th, 4th, or 3rd bullet, usually. It's a matter of learning the weapon and its caracteristics (yes, MrB, weapons have differences, and moreso NC ones ;) )


2) Attachments and their effects :

Laser Sight. This attachment only effect Hip Fire. It reduces the base CoF and raise the speed at which CoF shrinks when you stop firing. A CQC attachment.

Forward Grip. This attachement works in ADS fire. It reduces the horizontal drift due to CoF. That makes you more precise at distance where normal CoF would screw you up no matter how you counter recoil and burst fire, and it allows you more prolonged sustained fire at closer ranges.

Compensator. Works only in ADS. It reduces the vertical kickback, making it easier to fight the recoil. Downside : normally, any player shooting a weapon relatively close to an ennemy will appear as red dot on ennemy map (and maybe get a little red triangle over his head). This attachment makes you appear from farther away when firing. If you ask me, learn your base recoil, and drop this one, it's rather useless.

Suppressor. This does nothing on CoF or recoil, it just reduces the distance at which you appear on ennemy minimap when firing.

Silencer. Same as suppressor, on top of it, it makes you fire far far less noisy. drawback : the speed of your bullet is greatly reduced. 2 effects : the bullet drop on the ground very fast, and does minimal damage at distance. It forces you to CQB



3) Ammunition types

2 types worth it :

SoftPoint ammunition : tailored toward medium range fighting. It reduces your bullet damage by 5% close range, raise the damage by 15% medium range, but reduce the damage by 15% at long range. A difference maker in base fights, from the few I've been able to test

High Velocity ammunition. Build to fight at longer distance. It raises the bullet speed, making it easier to do prediction shooting, you have to lead less. drawback : it raises your recoil , you have to fight it harder.

RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2012, 03:18:52 pm »
Awesome, thanks!


kalbuth

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2012, 04:53:11 pm »
Some notes on weapons I've been able to test :

Medic :
Standard Gauss : A very good and versatile gun, any range, any situation. You need to keep control on it tightly, though.

GR-22 : direct upgrade of Gauss up to long range engagments. Faster RoF, little loss of upfront damage but the RoF makes up for it. It's a NC weapon that pretends to be TR, and succeeds at it. The loss of precision you'll get at range it not important enough to make you drop this gun. To me, the best gun in NC arsenal, a must buy.

Reaper DMR : the long range Medic tool. supposedly good at range, but I find Gauss as efficient, and what you gain at range, you feel the loss in CQC. too slow, too hard to control. Not a primary buy for me. Can be a good complement to GR-22 once you have certs left unused.

NS11A : A cross empire Assault Rifle, in fact very good. Precise (more than usual NC weapons), though less HUMPF power per shot, you feel it. Very good all round, the precision makes it good in CQC Hip Fire to hit the head consistently, and the control is easy enough in ADS mode. Beware, there's something fishy with the bullet travel time, perhaps the bullets are slow, I've had hard time hitting targets moving sideways at range. I've gone back to GR-22 after testing this one. Very good weapon for VS, because of the added bonus to totally confuse ennemy who never think a VS is NOT actually shooting at them with a weapon making a pew-pew sound


Heavy Assault :

Gauss SAW : basic HA weapon. Slow firing, uncontrollable, wild. Can be used at range with very short burst, and hitting. That's its only trait. subpar LMG for anything else.

EM6 : Unlocked with Alpha Squad. An upgraded SAW, fires faster, recoils less even if the CoF is by default I think bigger, making it less manageable, ie, less good at range. Correctly modded (compensator, forward grip), it is said to rival other empire's HA. Like Heavy Assault weapon trait, best used non-stop rushing because the 100 ammo magazine will drop your foe with his pants down while he reloads and you rush him full auto.

GD-22S : More an Assault Rifle than a LMG, only 50 ammo per clip, but the weapon packs a punch per bullet with a good RoF and a very controllable recoil/CoF pattern. Only one thing to manage is to never get past the 7th bullet in sustained fire, because after that the bullet go absolutely everywhere BUT on target. Currently my HA weapon of choice. Love it, I think I found my weapon for NC HA, something I was unsure to find.


Engie / LA :

Mercenary : default gun. Only tested it really during beta when it had a vertical only recoil. Can't comment much on it except it's imho a good weapon, lacking only in ammo count.

Raoh

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2012, 05:23:30 pm »
Very nice overview Kal. :)

GR-22: I can't for the life of me think of what this was like right now, but I'm sure I must have used it; I'll need to check it out again tonight.

Reaper DMR: I wasn't too impressed with it although it's supposed to be harder hitting than the Gauss but I may give it another go as many weapons seem pants when you first use them in the wrong situations (apart from all TR and most VS weapons which are all amazing out of the box at any range ;) ).

Gauss: A good solid weapon that has good damage and is a good all-rounder once you learn to keep the recoil under control, but it does have a pretty predicable up-right drift to it so it's not so bad.

NS11A: Tried this again last night, but I need to give it a longer go. The impression I got in a few fights was that it's definitely quick firing although not as powerful as the Gauss, and, in some medium -boardering on short-range fights - it felt like I was having to put way too many bulletts into some guys.
Perhaps I just came up against 'the Hulk' or was out of it's optimal range but, I was literally on a tower corner firing at a guy inside the tower entrance on the opposite side, so not like they were miles away.

With the above in mind however, when I did get into a closer range fight (and fps wasn't an issue) the NS11A seemed very effective, so I suspect this is intended to be a very short range weapon and from watching one of the PS2 Friday Night Fight twitch streams they seemed to be saying this too - so slap a laser sight on this one and go to town up-close and personal. :)


I wont commont on the other guns right now as I really haven't used them enough to form an opinion yet, but I may do a vehicle weapon summary at some point after a bit more testing.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 05:28:03 pm by Raoh »

kalbuth

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2012, 05:33:07 pm »
GR-22 == AF14 Torrent in beta

kalbuth

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 11:15:20 am »
Full NC weapons raw statistics : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap1eT7p42dqhdGRTNWZQTS1IczRVTVROX0d4NGJjYnc#gid=0
You'll see here how GR-22 is superior :)

Doesn't show recoil and CoF statistics

RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 12:02:37 pm »
And you can see why I like the GD-7F =]


eeM

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 12:35:25 pm »
Full NC weapons raw statistics : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap1eT7p42dqhdGRTNWZQTS1IczRVTVROX0d4NGJjYnc#gid=0
You'll see here how GR-22 is superior :)

Doesn't show recoil and CoF statistics

Can't really  call anything superior if CoF and Recoil isnt taken into account. I do like the GR-22 though ;-) Thinking about saving up for a forward grip or an extra scope or something

RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 05:36:48 pm »
I've compiled some data in a little spreadsheet to make it easier to browse through: PS2_Weapons.ods. If you want a specific gun added find its Fire Group ID in this table and then look up that ID in this table and give me the PRIMARY_FIRE_MODE_ID and SECONDARY_FIRE_MODE_ID. I'm not sure what effect all of the properties have. Some might not have an effect at all but left over from beta.

1000 * 60 / REFIRE_TIME_MS = RPM
RANGE = Range at which damage reduction starts?
RELOAD_TIME_MS = Reload time in milliseconds
COF_RECOIL = CoF bloom per shot
RECOIL_MAGNITUDE_MIN and RECOIL_MAGNITUDE_MAX = Min and max recoil per shot (the amount your aim is thrown off)
RECOIL_ANGLE_MIN and RECOIL_ANGLE_MIN = Defines the direction the recoil has (0 is straight up, -90 is straight right, +90 is straight left)
RECOIL_RECOVERY_DELAY_MS = Time it takes after releasing the trigger before the CoF starts to shrink again[/td
RECOIL_RECOVERY_RATE = How fast the CoF shrinks
RECOIL_INCREASE and RECOIL_INCREASE_CROUCHED = No clue
RECOIL_FIRST_SHOT_MODIFIER = Kal knows this...
RELOAD_CHAMBER_TIME_MS = Additional time it takes to reload a weapon that has completely emptied a magazine
RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_TOLERANCE = No clue
RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MIN and RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MAX = No clue
PROJECTILE_SPEED_OVERRIDE = Bullet velocity
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 06:25:44 pm by RedFox »


RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2012, 11:39:23 pm »
Made a little script to pull some weapon data from the database. It is just a proof-of-concept and the specific data that is pulled is hard-coded in the script, but if you want to have a look, it's here.


kalbuth

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2012, 06:27:18 pm »
I don't think COF_RECOIL is the COF bloom per shot. There is another specific parameter for this somewhere else in the tables.

RECOIL_INCREASE : wild guess : the amount by which the RECOIL_MAGNITUDE is increased per consecutive shot

RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MIN & MAX : guess again : the horizontal drift I was talking about before in this thread. It's added (MIN to the left, MAX to the right) to the decided position of the sight after adding RECOIL_MAGNITUDE at RECOIL_ANGLE. There is a RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_INCREASE which may make this more drastic after each consecutive shot. This parameter explains why weapons which have RECOIL_MAGNITUDE_MIN == RECOIL_MAGNITUDE_MAX and RECOIL_ANGLE_MIN== RECOIL_ANGLE_MAX (plenty of them) still have variable recoil patterns.

RECOIL_FIRST_SHOT_MODIFIER : The multiplier you apply to RECOIL_MAGNITUDE for the first shot. Simulates the initial kickback before your arm and your grip adapt.


EDIT : btw you have cut remote access to your mysql database, I can't fetch data anymore :(
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 06:31:37 pm by kalbuth »

RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2012, 10:54:11 pm »
I don't think COF_RECOIL is the COF bloom per shot. There is another specific parameter for this somewhere else in the tables.
Haven't seen that one, which is that?

RECOIL_INCREASE : wild guess : the amount by which the RECOIL_MAGNITUDE is increased per consecutive shot
There is also a RECOIL_MAX_TOTAL_MAGNITUDE, but it seems to be only used for LMGs.

RECOIL_FIRST_SHOT_MODIFIER : The multiplier you apply to RECOIL_MAGNITUDE for the first shot. Simulates the initial kickback before your arm and your grip adapt.
Yes, I've read that somewhere too.

RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MIN & MAX : guess again : the horizontal drift I was talking about before in this thread. It's added (MIN to the left, MAX to the right) to the decided position of the sight after adding RECOIL_MAGNITUDE at RECOIL_ANGLE.
I haven't seen the RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_INCREASE you are talking about, but the column before the two is RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_TOLERANCE. I would have expected MIN to be negative then, but okay. From the table it means that only a few guns have horizontal drift (after the first recoil) and always to the right, because RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MIN & MAX are almost always the same, and if they are not then MIN is smaller than MAX. To be honest I haven't noticed guns having horizontal drift (only that the recoil isn't straight up) but I did notice the horizontal variance.

There are also RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MIN_INCREASE & RECOIL_HORIZONTAL_MAX_INCREASE, but they are always the same and only non-zero for the SABR-13 and weapons without a name (so I guess they aren't in the game).

EDIT : btw you have cut remote access to your mysql database, I can't fetch data anymore :(
Yeah, had to change it because I had some people help debug the script and when it was broken it showed the code including the database password.


Ypnos

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 02:28:42 pm »
This is getting a bit scientific now lol

I unlocked the AC-X11 for my Engineer (http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/AC-X11)
It is inaccurate as hell when it's stock. In fact, I've regretted spending 500SC on this gun, because I see no difference between this and the basic one. I've put an IRNV attachment and it's slightly improved for night use, but still hardly worth it.

On my HA I have the stock LMG, with a 1x reticle and a forward grip. MUCH better! I am killing people at medium/long range in 2-3 single shots. Up close, unless you start shooting first, you're dead - but this pretty much sums up the NC experience for me.

The one thing I hate about all the guns in this game, is the sewing machine sound effects. This game takes place in the future, they can't make guns that don't sound like they've been built in chinese sweat shop?

Bah, humbug! ;)

RedFox

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 03:42:42 pm »
I unlocked the AC-X11 for my Engineer (http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/AC-X11)
It is inaccurate as hell when it's stock. In fact, I've regretted spending 500SC on this gun, because I see no difference between this and the basic one. I've put an IRNV attachment and it's slightly improved for night use, but still hardly worth it.

Yeah, it's starting CoF is comparable with the GD-7F, but it blooms more and reduces bloom slower. The AF-19 ADS starting CoF is about half of those two. All carbines need good trigger discipline: only fire in bursts.

Also, you can trial any weapon before you buy it. If you click "Unlock" it comes up with a confirmation box. At the bottom of this box is the option to trial the weapon for 30 minutes.


Ypnos

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Re: Guns and attachments
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 03:57:33 pm »
I didn't know that, thanks! lol